Inherited value from books

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Inherited value from books

Niels Kobschätzki-2
Hi,

I just added a "book" with a "Title". Then I created a "New Publication with Crossref". The "incollection"-item then inherited the "Title" from the "Book". I would expect that the "Title" from the "Book" would go into "Booktitle" in the "incollection"-item. Why does it work the way it does?

Thanks :)

Niels
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Re: Inherited value from books

Christiaan Hofman

On Dec 30, 2013, at 16:03, Niels Kobschätzki wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I just added a "book" with a "Title". Then I created a "New Publication with Crossref". The "incollection"-item then inherited the "Title" from the "Book". I would expect that the "Title" from the "Book" would go into "Booktitle" in the "incollection"-item. Why does it work the way it does?
>
> Thanks :)
>
> Niels

It inherits fields as they are named. It's pretty straight forward and simple, nothing more. There is no meta information about different fields in different types anywhere in the program.

Christiaan



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Re: Inherited value from books

Christiaan Hofman

On Dec 30, 2013, at 18:00, Christiaan Hofman wrote:

>
> On Dec 30, 2013, at 16:03, Niels Kobschätzki wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I just added a "book" with a "Title". Then I created a "New Publication with Crossref". The "incollection"-item then inherited the "Title" from the "Book". I would expect that the "Title" from the "Book" would go into "Booktitle" in the "incollection"-item. Why does it work the way it does?
>>
>> Thanks :)
>>
>> Niels
>
> It inherits fields as they are named. It's pretty straight forward and simple, nothing more. There is no meta information about different fields in different types anywhere in the program.
>
> Christiaan
>

BTW, this is not just BibDesk, this is in fact how bibtex works. Know that also bibtex has no internal information about fields and types. Only the bibtex styles know about types and fields, but inheriting fields is not done by the style, but more primitively by bibtex itself (and therefore could never use any type information.) Just look at the bibtex output (e.g. using the tex preview), you should note that the Title is inherited by the incollection from the book, but not the Booktitle, just as BibDesk does.

Christiaan


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Re: Inherited value from books

Maxwell, Adam R-2
In reply to this post by Niels Kobschätzki-2

On Dec 30, 2013, at 07:03, Niels Kobschätzki <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I just added a "book" with a "Title". Then I created a "New Publication with Crossref". The "incollection"-item then inherited the "Title" from the "Book". I would expect that the "Title" from the "Book" would go into "Booktitle" in the "incollection"-item. Why does it work the way it does?

You need to set a preference to duplicate the "Title" field to "Booktitle" for some collection types. There's discussion of this in the help and archives.

http://bibdesk.sourceforge.net/manual/BibDesk%20Help_74.html

--
Adam




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Re: Inherited value from books

Niels Kobschätzki-2
In reply to this post by Christiaan Hofman
On 30 Dec 2013, at 18:11, Christiaan Hofman wrote:

> On Dec 30, 2013, at 18:00, Christiaan Hofman wrote:
>
>>
>> On Dec 30, 2013, at 16:03, Niels Kobschätzki wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I just added a "book" with a "Title". Then I created a "New Publication with Crossref". The "incollection"-item then inherited the "Title" from the "Book". I would expect that the "Title" from the "Book" would go into "Booktitle" in the "incollection"-item. Why does it work the way it does?
>>>
>>> Thanks :)
>>>
>>> Niels
>>
>> It inherits fields as they are named. It's pretty straight forward and simple, nothing more. There is no meta information about different fields in different types anywhere in the program.
>>
>> Christiaan
>>
>
> BTW, this is not just BibDesk, this is in fact how bibtex works. Know that also bibtex has no internal information about fields and types. Only the bibtex styles know about types and fields, but inheriting fields is not done by the style, but more primitively by bibtex itself (and therefore could never use any type information.) Just look at the bibtex output (e.g. using the tex preview), you should note that the Title is inherited by the incollection from the book, but not the Booktitle, just as BibDesk does.
I figured that bibtex has no knowledge about fields and how they work but only on the style knoww. I didn't know that it has some kind of inheritance but thought that it is a comfort-function of BibDesk filling out the fields. Henceforth I wondered why it doesn't move in that case the Title to Booktitle since I would think that if you start adding chapters of a book, you usually add a Title, too.

Niels
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Re: Inherited value from books

Niels Kobschätzki-2
In reply to this post by Maxwell, Adam R-2
On 30 Dec 2013, at 18:12, Maxwell, Adam R wrote:

> On Dec 30, 2013, at 07:03, Niels Kobschätzki <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I just added a "book" with a "Title". Then I created a "New Publication with Crossref". The "incollection"-item then inherited the "Title" from the "Book". I would expect that the "Title" from the "Book" would go into "Booktitle" in the "incollection"-item. Why does it work the way it does?
>
> You need to set a preference to duplicate the "Title" field to "Booktitle" for some collection types. There's discussion of this in the help and archives.
>
> http://bibdesk.sourceforge.net/manual/BibDesk%20Help_74.html

Thanks a lot, that helps :)
I searched but couldn't find it (and couldn't figure out how to search the mailing list on the sourcefourge-site).

Niels
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Re: Inherited value from books

Jan Jakob Bornheim
In reply to this post by Maxwell, Adam R-2


On Dec 30, 2013 6:12 PM, "Maxwell, Adam R" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> On Dec 30, 2013, at 07:03, Niels Kobschätzki <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I just added a "book" with a "Title". Then I created a "New Publication with Crossref". The "incollection"-item then inherited the "Title" from the "Book". I would expect that the "Title" from the "Book" would go into "Booktitle" in the "incollection"-item. Why does it work the way it does?
>
> You need to set a preference to duplicate the "Title" field to "Booktitle" for some collection types. There's discussion of this in the help and archives.
>
For what it's worth, if you use Biblatex with Biber instead of plain Bibtex, you can customise data inheritance. That won't change the way BibDesk displays the data, but will make for proper citations in the document you're preparing.


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Re: Inherited value from books

Niels Kobschätzki-2
On 30 Dec 2013, at 18:16, Jan Jakob Bornheim wrote:

> On Dec 30, 2013 6:12 PM, "Maxwell, Adam R" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Dec 30, 2013, at 07:03, Niels Kobschätzki <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I just added a "book" with a "Title". Then I created a "New Publication
> with Crossref". The "incollection"-item then inherited the "Title" from the
> "Book". I would expect that the "Title" from the "Book" would go into
> "Booktitle" in the "incollection"-item. Why does it work the way it does?
>>
>> You need to set a preference to duplicate the "Title" field to
> "Booktitle" for some collection types. There's discussion of this in the
> help and archives.
>>
> For what it's worth, if you use Biblatex with Biber instead of plain
> Bibtex, you can customise data inheritance. That won't change the way
> BibDesk displays the data, but will make for proper citations in the
> document you're preparing.
Thanks
But with this project right now I unfortunately don't have the time to start figuring out how biber works, how to integrate it into my workflow and whether and how I have to modify/recreate existing style :/

Right now everything usually just works and only that bit was a little annoyance :)

Niels
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Re: Inherited value from books

Maxwell, Adam R-2
In reply to this post by Niels Kobschätzki-2

On Dec 30, 2013, at 09:16, Niels Kobschätzki <[hidden email]>
 wrote:

> On 30 Dec 2013, at 18:12, Maxwell, Adam R wrote:
>
>> On Dec 30, 2013, at 07:03, Niels Kobschätzki <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I just added a "book" with a "Title". Then I created a "New Publication with Crossref". The "incollection"-item then inherited the "Title" from the "Book". I would expect that the "Title" from the "Book" would go into "Booktitle" in the "incollection"-item. Why does it work the way it does?
>>
>> You need to set a preference to duplicate the "Title" field to "Booktitle" for some collection types. There's discussion of this in the help and archives.
>>
>> http://bibdesk.sourceforge.net/manual/BibDesk%20Help_74.html
>
> Thanks a lot, that helps :)
> I searched but couldn't find it (and couldn't figure out how to search the mailing list on the sourcefourge-site).

Here's how I found it:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bibdesk+crossref+booktitle

…but I knew what to search for :).

There's some useful discussion of the whys and wherefores of this in the macosx-tex archives, but the sourceforge search display is kind of lame.

http://sourceforge.net/p/bibdesk/mailman/search/?q=crossref+booktitle&mail_list=bibdesk-users

To search a BibDesk mailing list, use the "Mailing Lists" link on the project page. Sorting is goofy, and nested thread display is horribly broken when you have multiple levels of quoting. I've no idea why they don't just let google index it.

Adam


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